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VT1100C3 Oil Guide Plug Fix
Old 01-04-2013, 03:15 PM   #1
BaldEagle
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VT1100C3 Oil Guide Plug Fix

**********
First of all let me say that I do not own a VT1100 ACE or AERO, just came across this write up and felt that it needed to be added here as well. This repair is the same for the 1995-1999 VT1100C2 ACE as it is the 1998-2000 VT1100C3 AERO.

-BaldEagle
**********


First a little Background
What is the guide plug leak? There is a plug on the lower left side of the engine that can work loose, causing an oil leak. It is located along the pan by the shifter and is a bit larger in diameter than a quarter. Most will first notice this leak when their engine pan will become wet with oil. For some, it will develop into a full blown dripping leak.

Honda issued a warning and fix instructions in their September 1999 issue of the Honda Wrench publication. This is a publication that is sent out to dealers and their service shops. While this is not an official recall, some Honda shops have been able to get this problem fixed for no or little charge to the customer, even when the motorcycle is out of warranty. But that varies depending on your dealer and your dealer’s regional representative. So before you attempt this yourself, it may be worth your while to complain to your Honda shop and see what happens. The Wrench article also has some information on the related shifter rattle that usually, but not always, accompanies the guide plug leak.

DISCLAIMER
Use these directions at your own risk. The directions are not perfect and are not a substitute for proper experience. There's no shame in going to the dealer even I do sometimes.

Please read the overview. If you decide to do the repair, please read what I have written and look at the pictures. Then PRINT OUT THE INSTRUCTIONS! Keep your computer on so you can refer to the pictures. The directions are long. My intention was to share what I learned.

Do this job on a rainy day when you have all day so you don't have to rush.

Since Honda occasionally updates the part numbers with newer numbers, the below part numbers may not be current. But with the denoscriptnoscriptnoscriptnoscriptnoscriptnoscriptions, you should be able to go to RonAyers.com or Partsfish.com and get the most up to date numbers.
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Then the prophet Isaiah called on the LORD, and the LORD made the
SHADOW... 2 Kings 20:11
Okay, I know it's a little out of context, but still we have proof that God cr
eated the Shadow!!!


Last edited by BaldEagle : 01-04-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #2
BaldEagle
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Guide Plug Patch
Because you might need to patch the Guide Plug before you have time to fix it, here is a guide for a TEMPORARY Patch repair

So your 1100 Shadow has started dripping oil everywhere; maybe a few drops, maybe even a small puddle. Crawling underneath, you find the oil seems to be coming from the radiator hose. What’s going on? You my friend, may have just found the little-known problem with Honda’s guide plug design on the single-pin crank engine.

The guide plug (Honda part number 11211-MK7-770) fills an access port to keep the oil from leaking. It’s in the Honda parts microfiche shown as number 4 on the crankcase illustration and has an O-ring seal (number 27 in the illustration; part number 91351-MG7-004).



The guide plug fits into the crankcase snugly enough and is held in place by the crankcase cover overlapping one of the tabs that protrudes from the plug. Unfortunately, nothing stops the plug from rotating counterclockwise; if it rotates enough, the crankcase cover will no longer be overlapping the tab and the plug can work it’s way loose. Eventually, engine vibration will damage the O-ring enough to let small amounts of oil leak; left like this, the plug is very likely to eventually become loose enough for large amounts of oil to leak past the seal.

This problem and the repair was briefly mentioned in the September, 1999 issue of the Wrench, a technical newsletter for Honda motorcycle mechanics. A much more detailed and comprehensive repair instruction was prepared by a Shadow owner; this repair procedure takes up to 5 hours to complete, including an oil change. But if you’re away from home and/or can’t invest the time to do the repair, you’ll need a relatively quick “patch” to stem the oil loss before serious problems develop. Simply rotating the plug back into position has proven quite ineffective with a half-life of about 50 miles.

This document describes a temporary patch that takes about 30 minutes, has proven effective for over 1,000 miles (but no more than 1,300 miles) and can be repeated until there is time to invest in the repair.

Disclaimer:
This is a temporary patch and should not be considered a solution to the guide plug oil leak. Use these directions at your own risk.

Required tools and materials:
- old newspaper (to place under motorcycle)
- spray can of brake cleaner with extension tube for nozzle
- long screwdriver and a yardstick (or another long screwdriver)
- paper plate or piece of cardboard
- popsicle stick
- JB Weld (available in most automotive and hardware stores)

STEP 1 - Find the guide plug.
The guide plug is shown in the shop manual with the engine removed from the frame and the left crankcase cover removed. (You’ll find this illustration in the “ELECTRIC STARTER/STARTER CLUTCH” chapter in the “STARTER DRIVEN GEAR/STARTER CLUTCH REMOVAL” section.)



It’s a little bit harder to find it on the bike. Start by following the yardstick to see where the guide plug is on my bike.



To find it on your bike, lie on the ground (or, preferably a mechanics creeper) next to the bike (without the yardstick) and peek under the shift lever and over the frame.

There it is, just barely visible from the side of the bike.


Here’s what a new one looks like:


STEP 2 - Clean the guide plug and crankcase.
From the front of the bike, clean the guide plug and crankcase with brake cleaner in a VERY focused spray. Let the cleaner evaporate before moving to the next step.

STEP 3 - Reposition the guide plug.
a. From the side of the bike, use the yardstick (or a long screwdriver if you prefer) to gently push the guide plug back into the crankcase.


(Note the JB Weld from the previous patch operation.)

b. From the front of the bike, gently push upward on the bottom of the upper tab (as shown bellow) or the bottom of the forward tab to rotate the guide plug into the proper position while maintaining pressure with the yardstick.



c. Check for proper position; you should see a small notch between the guide plug and the crankcase.


(Note that this picture was taken with the crankcase cover removed, the “old” JB Weld cleaned up and a new guide plug.)

Step 4 - Mix up a little JB Weld and put a small dab on each side of a popsicle stick.



Step 5 - Press the dabs of JB Weld into the notch and smear some over the edge of the crankcase and the guide plug.

It should look something like this.



Step 6 - Clean up your yardstick (or screwdriver), properly dispose of newspaper, paper plate and popsicle stick, wash your hands and let the JB Weld cure for 4 hours (or more).


Note: If you find it necessary to repeat the patch before you get to the repair, use a long screwdriver to gently remove as much as possible of the “old” JB Weld when you’re cleaning things up in step 2. (The yardstick won’t work!)
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Then the prophet Isaiah called on the LORD, and the LORD made the
SHADOW... 2 Kings 20:11
Okay, I know it's a little out of context, but still we have proof that God cr
eated the Shadow!!!


Last edited by bigdavy_p : 01-04-2013 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:32 PM   #3
BaldEagle
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Guide Plug Repair (with Addendum)

OVERVIEW & HISTORY OF THE PROBLEM
Most Honda Shadow 1100's do not have this problem because they use a different style of engine setup cover on the left side. All Honda single pin crank 1100 Shadow motors do have the problem. The years are 1998 thru 2001, and only affect the single pin models. My shadow pictured here has only 8,000 miles on it and the problem started after approximately 5,000 miles. The leak happens mainly when you are driving. And my bike never left a drop on the ground under it. The leak runs towards the back of the bike.

ADDENDUM 1
If the leak is not addressed while it is just a drip, it is likely that the guide plug will eventually work it’s way into a position that causes oil to pour past it – whether the bike is parked or running – and leave puddles of oil.

Parts fiche also available at hondaparts-direct.com and that’s where I found the best prices.




The "Guide Plug" leaks oil around its O-ring. (See above) The O-ring has nothing wrong with it. What happens is the guide plug has a piece of metal that sticks out so the main lower left side cover will press up against it and keep it in place. Part of the problem is poor and awkward design. If the guide plug rotates enough the small piece of metal will no longer touch the main side cover. Now it is able to move out about 1/16" of an inch. Over time this movement wears out the rubber gasket. And wear is evident on the aluminum parts (See Figure 2). Look at the round hole that the Guide Plug goes in. You will notice 2 "bands" of wear that disappear as you get past the 3 o’clock position.

ADDENDUM 2
The leak can happen when the bike is parked; if it does, oil will typically drip from the guard covering the radiator hose at the lower, front, right side of the engine.



If you do the same thing that the factory did, the problem could return in a very short time (1 yr). And each time you will pay for the repair (~ $200). SOLUTION: I applied gasket cement to the guide plug and I placed a tiny piece of card board on the part where the cover contacts so the cover will press the Guide Plug in with a little more force. The gasket cement will stop the part from rotating back and forth which cause the o-ring to wear and the aluminum engine case.

TIME NEEDED TO DO THE REPAIR:
Count at least 3 hours to do the job. Probably with clean up and getting supplies, it’ll take around 5 hours. This is a time consuming job and there are many places to make mistakes which will result in leaks after the job is done. It takes a lot of time to clean parts so that they are totally oil free - anything less will leak again. I've been working on motorcycles especially dirt bikes for years and I found this job to be the most time consuming ever for a lower left side cover gasket replacement.

TOOLS AND SUPPLIES:
Order these four parts from a Honda parts dealer as they should be replaced in order to get a good oil seal again.
1. O-ring gasket for Guide Plug 91351-MG7-004
2. Shifter Oil Seal 91204-425-003
3. Left side case gasket 11395-MAH-000
4. Starter cover gasket 11365-MM8-881

ADDENDUM 3
The tools and supplies list only has 4 items whereas the parts list (on page 2) includes 6 unique part numbered-items. The 4 items are NOT the absolute minimum required to do the repair; the other guide plug might be optional but the clutch lifter arm O-ring (listed as a gasket) should be replaced.

1. Gasket, L. 11395-MAH-000, (Left Engine Cover Gasket)
2. Oil Seal 91204-425-003 (Shifter Rod Seal)
3. Gasket 22862-MAH-003, (Clutch Rod Cover Gasket)
4. Gasket 11365-MM8-881, (Starter Cover Gasket)
5. Plug, Left Crankcase 11211-MK7-770, (Guide Plug)
6. Guide Plug O-Ring 91351-MG7-003, (Guide Plug O-Ring)
7. A couple of cans of brake cleaner to clean everything oily.

All parts can be ordered online from the sites that provide access to the fiche files – and will certainly be cheaper than the dealer, maybe even faster.


Standard ratchet set: Sockets: 10mm, 8mm, needle nose pliers, 2 pry bars (much better than screw drivers), a 17mm box wrench (for the oil drain plug), oil drain pan, small putty knife, a good quality small razor to remove the old gasket, Brake Cleaner (not engine degreaser - only brake cleaner leave no residue). Plenty of news paper to lay covers on. Bunch of Rags. Water free hand cleaner. 4 quarts of fresh engine oil. A roll paper towels.

ADDENDUM 4
The 8 mm socket should be emphasized as it is vital and not always included in socket sets.

A torque wrench should be listed.

Thread sealer (aka Loctite) should be listed.

Weather is misspelled in “Whether strip Adhesive”.

I wouldn’t attempt a repair this complicated without the Service (aka “Shop”) Manual – although it is very difficult to follow this repair through the Service Manual; if attempting to do so, note the it will be necessary to reference the steps in the chapters on maintenance (left crankcase rear cover), charging system (dis-assembly sequence, list of some chapter sections, footpeg and gearshift pedal), clutch (clutch lifter arm), starter (starter gear cover), charging system (left crankcase cover) and then starter (guide plug) in that order and then reverse the order during re-assembly.


TIP: A good flash light and another light that can be put on a stand - Don't do this job in a poorly lit area. Permatex or other RTV Gasket Sealant. Whether strip Adhesive - recommended - it dries in minutes and is super sticky to hold the new gasket exactly in place during installation.

TIP: GASKET REMOVER - (it must contain Methyelene Chloride) A tiny can of "Zip Strip" or furniture finish remover is even better - and the furniture stuff usually comes with a brush so there is less mess. This stuff will literally dissolve the gasket so you can wipe it off!!! Don't not get any anywhere else - this is much stronger than brake cleaner and will literally melt rubber hoses, plastic covers etc. But it saves ton's of time cleaning old gasket material off!!!

TIP: KNEE PADS - If you have kneepads for rollerblades – which you probably neveruse - this is a good time to break them out. Or use an old rug that is folded over to make it thicker. Most of the time doing this job you will be kneeling on cement!

TIP: Eye protection - If you don't wear glasses get a pair of clear saftey glasses - you will be spraying a lot of brake cleaner and it is easy for it to bounce off and hit you in the face eyes because the spray cans are under a lot of pressure and are difficult to control - it's either full blast or a drizzle.

GETTING STARTED

If you have purchased a motorcycle lift, use it. Otherwise, try to position the bike near a car or wall that you can lean it against towards the right (opposite of the way it would lean on the kick stand) This will stop oil from running towards the kick stand and on to the new gasket you will be installing which would result in an oil leak.

Warm up the motorcycle for a few minutes. Then turn off and drain oil.

Remove left running board.

Remove the gear shifter.

Remove the hose by un-clamping it

ADDENDUM 5
The hose in is disconnected rather than removed. It’s the crankcase breather hose.


The Service Manual recommends unbolting the breather joint from the crankcase cover but that is more difficult and unnecessary; it’s much easier to just loosen the spring clamp and disconnect the rubber hose.



Remove chrome outer "dress up to make it look pretty" cover. It has one nut at the bottom center take that off and then pull / pry on the cover (See below). Put some gasket cement or Loctite on the threads and screw the nut back on and tighten it up. This is so you can drive the bike with the cover off for a week and be able to detect any leaks.



Remove Clutch Cable - The easy way undo the two bolts that hold the tension assemble. Screw bolts back in so you don't lose them or forget where they go.


Remove starter gear cover
__________________

www.baldeaglecustoms.com

Then the prophet Isaiah called on the LORD, and the LORD made the
SHADOW... 2 Kings 20:11
Okay, I know it's a little out of context, but still we have proof that God cr
eated the Shadow!!!


Last edited by BaldEagle : 01-04-2013 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:33 PM   #4
BaldEagle
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Try to keep the bolts in each cover to ease reassembly later. DON'T FORGET THE "HIDDEN BOLT" under the starter cover. Wrap both with a rag put a cloth to absorb excess oil - DON'T spray them with brake cleaner - the ends must have oil on them or you will have a LOT of trouble putting them back in.



Now loosen all other bolts on the main cover. You will probably have to use a pry bar that I placed at the base of the V- in the V-twins and just above the top of the cover. Or hit the cover with a rubber mallet. If the cover doesn't move you probably forgot a bolt or the "hidden bolt".


ADDENDUM 6
The “dress up to make it look pretty” cover is identified as the left crankcase rear cover in the Service Manual. It is held on by MORE than one nut! There are also 2 spring clips (and washers) that hold it on place:

The clips are in front of the pieces of paper – placed to make the clips stand out in the photo. Pull the clips before or after removing the nut. Be careful to retrieve the washers that are between the clips and the rubber grommets.

Photo with left crankcase rear cover removed:

After removing the clutch cable, the clutch lifter arm (identified as the “tension assemble” in the repair instructions) should be removed; 2 of the 3 (instructions state only 2) bolts holding it in place go through the crankcase cover. Note the location of the dowel pin.

The lifter rod under the lifter arm should NOT be removed. (If it is removed and the orientation is not carefully noted, the correct orientation can be found at the beginning of the clutch installation instructions in the Service Manual.)

The starter gear cover is retained by 4 bolts; (at least) 1 goes through the crankcase cover. Note the locations of the 2 dowel pins.

Photo with the clutch lifter arm and the starter gear cover removed:


Note the end of the lifter arm.

The two starter gears (the drive gear on the right and he torque limiter on the left) must be removed. I believe that “Wrap both with a rag put a cloth to absorb excess oil – DON’T spray them with brake cleaner – the ends must have oil on them or you will have a LOT of trouble putting them back in.” is meant to be instructions on these two gears.

There are 7 bolts retaining the crankcase cover at this point, including the “hidden” one. (All seven are visible in the previous photo but the two on the lower left are partially obscured.)

The instructions understate the difficulty of removing the crankcase cover; it will likely be necessary to use a pry bar AND a rubber mallet and take a while and effort to loosen the gasket. The cover will NOT move easily even if all the bolts have been removed – at least not at first. But it is VERY important to be sure all 7 bolts have been removed!



WHEN YOU REMOVE THE MAIN COVER THE SENSOR ON THE TOP IS STILL ATTACHED. The wire can't be un-plugged - unless the seat is removed. Set it on a cardboard box or milk crate etc.

Remove the guide plug. Your guide plug is going to be in the wrong position since it is leaking so rotate it to match the one in my picture. Be careful you must pry from 9 o’clock and 3 o’clock at the same time. It should come off straight and with very little effort. If it gets stuck hit it back in and start again. Clean the part and the hole it goes into with brake cleaner and the surrounding area. Now remove & install the new O-ring.

ADDENDUM 7
The instructions for the guide plug are “remove & install the new O-ring” but the initial parts list included a new guide plug; if a new guide plug was purchased, there is no need to remove the old one.




Clean old gasket material off all covers. First timers or inexperienced often ask - "Do I really have to remove all the old gasket material completely?" YES, or it will leak! Don't take the chance of doing this job twice!!!

Clean all surfaces multiple times with brake cleaner and a CLEAN dry paper towel. And you must clean the lower oil pressure sensor thoroughly - but don't apply any gasket cement yet. Everything should be so clean you could eat off it. Avoid getting excessive amounts of brake cleaner in the engine.

Remove the shifter shaft seal. Carefully use a screw driver or pliers to pop it out. Be sure to coat the inside seal with grease or a little bit of oil if you have no grease. But don't get oil or grease on the outside of the new seal. Then install the new one. Easy method is to take a socket that is the same size or slightly bigger and use that to "drive" the new seal into place.



WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IS THE MOST CRITICAL PART OF THIS JOB
DO A DRY RUN. Put a small amount of oil on the new o-ring on the guide plug. YOU MUST DO THIS or the part will NOT go into place and is easily damaged. Rotate the guide plug so the two pry points are at 9 and 3 o’clock. Now put the main cover on and put a few bolts in and tighten up. Be sure the guide plug is in correctly and being pushed in properly - which means flush against the engine. There should be no gap or space between the two parts.
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Then the prophet Isaiah called on the LORD, and the LORD made the
SHADOW... 2 Kings 20:11
Okay, I know it's a little out of context, but still we have proof that God cr
eated the Shadow!!!


Last edited by BaldEagle : 01-04-2013 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:36 PM   #5
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Remove the cover and look at the gear shaft. You will most likely notice a small amount of oil has leaked over where the gasket would have been. This would have resulted in a leak. Repeatedly spray and clean under where the shifter shaft goes into the motor and press down on the shifter shaft to squeeze out oil.


Now if you are confident proceed, you will need to work quickly. Put on some of the weather strip adhesive or other tacky cement along the entire bottom on the engine side and a tiny amount on other parts.

Press down one last time on the shifter shaft to squeeze oil out and clean with a little brake cleaner the gasket area below it. Take the guide plug and put a very small thin bead of the slow drying regular gasket sealer. Using too much sealer, or letting it dry, may cause the close-fitting guide plug to not fit in once the cover is put in place.

Insert the guide plug. Be sure it is positioned exactly like in the picture. There must be a very small amt of oil on the o-ring so it will slide in to place.

Coat the rubber oil pressure sensor (the one on the bottom) with the tacky sealer, put it place after the guide plug. Put the new gasket on. Put the cover on all the way and tighten up. As you put the long bolts in coat each one of them with sealer. Tighten everything up quickly especially the bottom near the shifter shaft.

ADDENDUM 8
I believe the item identified as the “lower oil pressure sensor” is actually the neutral switch

Now you can relax the really critical rush part is over. Any mistakes beyond this point will not require taking the main cover off again or the guide plug.

Relaxing at this point is NOT appropriate as there are still at least 3 bolts (identified above) that should be installed and tightened to the proper torque spec before the gasket sealant cures.

Install the Starter Gears and Cover and Gasket. Don’t forget the "hidden bolt" before you put the cover on. Note there will be one extra hole that no bolt is able to fit into. You must oil both shaft ends of the two gears so they will assemble smoothly. Place the two gears in the engine. Do NOT put the gears on the cover. Now put the gasket and cover on. You will need to gently hit the cover on to start it with you fist.

The 4 bolts that retain the starter gear cover should be torqued to 12 N-m/9 lb-ft. Thread sealer should be applied to each. I did not notice an “extra” hole.




Watch your bolt lengths this part it is easy to put the wrong length in the wrong hole. Don't forget the 2 wire hold-downs that each go under one bolt. Coat all bolts with a small amount of sealer.

ADDENDUM 10
The 7 bolts that retain the crankcase cover should be torqued to 12 N-m/9 lb-ft. The “sealer” that should coat each one should be identified as thread sealer.

Next, again remove the clutch tension assembly to hook up the clutch cable and then tighten bolts back up.

The clutch lifter arm (listed as the tension assembly) should have been removed earlier so it should be re-installed with a new O-ring. I found it easy to install the clutch cable with the lifter arm bolted in place.

The 3 bolts that retain the clutch lifter arm should be torqued to 12 N-m/9 lb-ft. If the lifter rod was removed, be sure it is oriented properly first. Thread sealer should be applied to each.

Reinstall the hose in front of the main cover.

Double check the torque on all bolts several times by going around with the wrench and applying pressure. Any missed bolts could cause a leak.

The gearshift lever pinch bolt on my bike should be torqued to 23N-m/17 lb-ft after being aligned correctly. Alignment per the Service Manual:


The foot peg bolts should be torqued to 27 N-m/20 lb-ft.

The retaining nut on the left crankcase rear (“dress up to make it look pretty”) cover should be torqued to 12 N-m/9 lb-ft. Don’t forget the 2 clips AND the 2 washers.


Add engine oil, ~ 3.7 qt without filter change and ~ 4 with filter change.

Tip: Use the dip stick as the final guide - don't just pour in 3.7 quarts. The bike must be straight up - not on kick stand. And dip stick is NOT screwed in when checking the level. I leave the oil a little low on the dipstick then run the bike let it set then check it again.

TIP: Leave off the Chrome dress-up cover off to check for leaks for at least a week - you should carefully clean the underside of the motor to make it easy to discover new leaks.
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Then the prophet Isaiah called on the LORD, and the LORD made the
SHADOW... 2 Kings 20:11
Okay, I know it's a little out of context, but still we have proof that God cr
eated the Shadow!!!


Last edited by BaldEagle : 01-04-2013 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:45 PM   #6
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Again, I do not own a VT1100C2/C3, just found this when I was looking for something else and though it should be properly written up here.

Hope it helps someone.
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Then the prophet Isaiah called on the LORD, and the LORD made the
SHADOW... 2 Kings 20:11
Okay, I know it's a little out of context, but still we have proof that God cr
eated the Shadow!!!

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Old 01-04-2013, 07:07 PM   #7
mcvierh
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Good post........
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<<< ostentatious isn't it!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:35 PM   #8
BaldEagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvierh
Good post........
I saw it nested in a post I was searching for water pump information and thought it need to be written up here. Hopefully someone will make it a sticky.
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Then the prophet Isaiah called on the LORD, and the LORD made the
SHADOW... 2 Kings 20:11
Okay, I know it's a little out of context, but still we have proof that God cr
eated the Shadow!!!

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Old 01-15-2013, 10:29 AM   #9
praisethelowered
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Great Find! I just bought an ACE that's leaking oil, I was going to pull the cover and poke around but it looks like you hit the nail on the head with this one. Do you have a link to the original article so I can see the pics? Thanks for posting!
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:52 PM   #10
BaldEagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praisethelowered
Do you have a link to the original article so I can see the pics? Thanks for posting!
Not sure what pics you are looking for, I posted all the pics in my write up, but here is the original post, it also has links to the instructions as well. Let me know what pics you are talking about and I will add them to the write up.
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Then the prophet Isaiah called on the LORD, and the LORD made the
SHADOW... 2 Kings 20:11
Okay, I know it's a little out of context, but still we have proof that God cr
eated the Shadow!!!

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