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Old 11-30-2008, 06:50 PM   #11
mcvierh
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if you hit on the pictures or the blue writing you'll see i'st from BikerDan.....I've posted the link more than once in the past, some have forgotten........
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:59 PM   #12
twistedcrankcammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I put a set of Dyna coils and wires on my '83 VT750C. While it may not be the entire ignition system, it sure as hell makes a difference. (If your coils aren't up to snuff.)
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1306
Starting this bike in cold weather was iffy. They definitely "light the fire".
A good fat spark from both plugs does have a effect on how the bike runs. If that weren't so, Honda (and other bike mfr's.) would not have put two plugs in the chamber. If there is a weak spark, this bike won't even fire. It was a big step up from my old stock coils.
And again I reinterate that if everything were up to snuff you would not need the extra voltage. I run 4 Dyna mini coils on my V-Max, but it is for the nitrous, not the stock engine.

As for multiple spark plugs, they used to use three in top fuel, they are now limited to two only. The reason for this in top fuel is the incrdibly slow burn rate of Nitromethane. The reason in certain motorcycles is less then optimal combustion chamber and or to even out the burn, and engines with longer stroke ratios are by design more cold blooded by nature.

I cannot / wouldn't argue pecieved improvement either real or imagined but state that something wasn'y right, still once warmed up, if you had the power to start with your stock system then there should have been no power increase unless something was truely wrong with your stock settup.

Roger
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Old 11-30-2008, 07:39 PM   #13
rocksolid
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Damn, Roger such fancy talk!

As combustion pressure rises, it increases electrical resistance across the plug gap. There are two ways to get enough "fire".
You can reduce the plug gap
OR increase the voltage coming from the coils.
This over-comes the resistance and gives a better spark .
In other words, better coils do help.

Oh, and by the way, I didn't imagine anything, anecdotal evidence proves it going light to light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedcrankcammer
I cannot / wouldn't argue pecieved improvement either real or imagined ......Roger
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Placebo effect
Old 11-30-2008, 08:17 PM   #14
twistedcrankcammer
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Placebo effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Damn, Roger such fancy talk!

As combustion pressure rises, it increases electrical resistance across the plug gap. There are two ways to get enough "fire".
You can reduce the plug gap
OR increase the voltage coming from the coils.
This over-comes the resistance and gives a better spark .
In other words, better coils do help.

Oh, and by the way, I didn't imagine anything, anecdotal evidence proves it going light to light.
I didn't say you were wrong or right. There is a reason they call them placebos, and many percieve a differance, that does not make it so, nor does it make me wrong if you had an actual gain, it only means that you already had a problem, not that you increased the performance of what the bike should be.

What about the Busa engine, or the ZX-14, or any other top performing bikes on the market, no double plugs there, and the Shadow engine is where by comparison??

I only try to put an understanding of how it works for the laymen, I can't force you or anyone else to learn.

You say you had an increase, but are you capable of explaing why?? If not, do you know for a fact that your stock coils were not already heading south??

Regaurdless, the Dyna Coil is probably cheaper then the OEM replacement, but stepping up you voltage needed or not can wear your points and plugs out prematurely.

If you have enough spark to propperly light the mixture, that is all that is needed period.

Roger
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:45 PM   #15
Beaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedcrankcammer
What about the Busa engine, or the ZX-14, or any other top performing bikes on the market, no double plugs there, and the Shadow engine is where by comparison??

Roger
Are you kidding? The Shadow KILLS those lame-ass penis implants!!!
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Beaker Beaker!!
Old 11-30-2008, 09:08 PM   #16
twistedcrankcammer
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Beaker Beaker!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker
Are you kidding? The Shadow KILLS those lame-ass penis implants!!!




Beaker,

I think that is the first time I have truely taken what you're saying as a true Joke

But I still think you should use the muppets beaker as your avitar

Roger
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Old 11-30-2008, 09:37 PM   #17
Beaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedcrankcammer

But I still think you should use the muppets beaker as your avitar

Roger
Too predictable.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:40 PM   #18
rocksolid
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The bike is measurably faster, and yes the coils were old. That doesn't mean that the ignition isn't more efficient. In addition, stock coils won't fire at a plug gap that high voltage coils will. Large gaps and fat spark are desirable for efficient ignition, particularly if you decide to increase the compression ratio.

BTW, that little '83 VT750C will do a 12.8 quarter. Not bad for a stock v-twin engine that's half the displacement of your 'Busa.
Here is your Hyabusa in a 30 mph crash. (Big Ben's bike.)

They fold up like tin foil.
I'll keep my Shadows.
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Old 11-30-2008, 11:06 PM   #19
billace
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i remember a write up a few years back. ok maybe a little longer than a few. anyway they took a stock 70's chevy 350 tested it as stock, yes with new parts all working up to snuff. then they put a hotter coil, better wires, and a few other minor improvements along the same lines as we do with our bikes. they even opened up the gap on the plugs. the engine had lower emmissions than stock and performed better than stock. granted there was roughly 20 years difference in the technology available, but it shows that sometimes the manufacturers do not always put the best stuff on our bikes. does the stock system work, sure it does and it's reliable. probably why they use it. does putting hotter coils and such on a stock bike make it faster? maybe a little, but i don't think most people here are doing it for that purpose. most people understasnd that our engines are a little detuned from the factory. does putting better than stock coils help with starting... one forum member seems to think so... and i am inclined to believe him, it's his bike he should know. he also stated he changed tired coils. when i change mine i probably will put a hotter coil just to make sure i get a hotter spark. since our combustion chamber design is not the best, good, but not the best. the test i mentioned earlier in the post was done under government consent by ase certified mechanics. it had to under goverment consent because they were messing with emmission control systems. anyway sorry for rambling on just my .02
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Old 12-01-2008, 04:41 AM   #20
mcvierh
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The whole point of the article was to point out that it isn't the coil that improves preformance, beware of Coil manufactures with claims of hugh HP gains and whiter teeth....if your burn is over 900* your going to melt you pistons, if your burn is under 400 your going to foul out your plugs....it has to do with your points, plugs, timing.....sure a hotter coil will give a preceived advantage, but a hotter coil doesn't give a higher burn rate at 800 rpm or at 2500rpm, or at any other rpm for that matter, that all has to do with duration, dwell and timing....the way I've heard it put was, just because you can piss on an electric fence doesn't mean you should

Last edited by mcvierh : 12-01-2008 at 06:17 AM.
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